Why Would A Family Benefit From A Babywearing Educator?

• Transcript

  Kaely Harrod 00:04

  Welcome to doula Tips and Tits. This podcast is a place where we answer one question about doula work, both to support you and to help you support your clients. I'm Kaely Harrod. I've been supporting families in this perinatal space since my oldest was born 12 nearly 13 years ago. I am a birth and postpartum doula childbirth educator, La Leche Leagues Leader and a doula coach. I love guiding and supporting doulas as they work out their doula business. It is a tremendous joy to be trusted in this way. Thank you for joining us on this journey. Hello, and welcome back to doula Tips and Tips. I am very excited to have another special guest with us. This series of guests is coming to a close soon, but we have a few more left and I am super pumped about what they have to talk about. This lovely person that's here with me today is Katie Shamp. She is the director of operations at the breastfeeding Center here in DC. So that is how I originally connected with Katie and got to know them. But also is a certified breastfeeding specialist a babywearing educator generally an amazing human being good friend, I would say at this point. And, and so they bring a ton of different expertise to this space of babywearing and also kind of like have that actual experience around some of the combinations of things with breastfeeding and babywearing and all of those different overlaps. So Katie, I would love for you to tell our listeners a little about yourself and how you kind of got to this place that you're at.

  Katie Shamp 01:50

  Yeah, I'm excited to be here, I always love talking to you, um, I kind of leave on a high every time we chat.

  Kaely Harrod 01:56

  Oh, I love it.

  Katie Shamp 01:58

  Um, I have been on the admin team here at the breastfeeding center for like 10 or 11 years now. And I sort of accidentally fell into this work, I had a friend who had a really hard time breastfeeding. And so I knew, you know, it was on my radar that it was hard. And it seemed like really worthy work. That, you know, I was interested in doing, but I just had no idea. And I think that leads into, you know, the conversation that we're gonna have today. And because we're a small team here at the center, everyone kind of does a little bit of everything. And I started informally helping our clients with babywearing pretty early on. And I think I felt, you know, pretty competent in that role. And it wasn't until actually 2017 2018 I'd have to I should have probably looked it up that I trained with the Center for babywearing studies. And that really opened up for me again, exactly how much there was to learn in this space and and then I started practicing with that new skill set and have found every client that I meet with that, you know, we learn new things together. And there is a wonderful community of babywearing educators out there that are really collaborative that I learned from too.

  Kaely Harrod 03:24

  I love that. And also this is a safe space to not know when you trained for things. I'm always like my six or seven or so years ago. I don't remember how old is that kid that was? Like how old is my kid? Like I guess my youngest was two. So it had to have a year. I love that you bring the nuance of the space to the work that you do. And what I mean when I say that is that like what you just said about you learn something new every time you work with a family. I think that's super important to just like, sit with that as a birth worker, because there is not an arrival point of knowing everything you need to know in whatever field you're in. But especially in birth work in education around baby wearing childbirth, Ed, newborn care stat like, there, there are new humans who we're dealing with write that have never been here. And so they're they're a brand new experience every time not that there aren't a lot of overlaps and a lot of similarities and whatnot. But you are constantly learning things. And I think that can be a really lovely freeing space to not need to know every single thing there is to know, you know. So

  04:52

  yeah, and I think it's a really hard dance and like I think that's why the series that you're doing is so interesting, too. to know when you have value to add, and when there's more that you could learn and when it's important to say, I don't know, but let me find out for you. And that is something that actually my babywearing educator my own at the Center for babywearing studies. Joanna McNealy starts off talking about a lot and that I found really a really valuable lens to think about. Really like any practice that you're you're doing. She talks a lot about the stages of competence. And unconscious incompetence is sort of like the bottom of that hierarchy. And that's like your Dunning Kruger effect where you don't know what you don't know. And that can be a really dangerous place to be inhabiting. And I will fully admit that for I think, probably a few years as I was helping folks informally with babywearing. That's probably a space that I was inhabiting, you know, I didn't know what I didn't know, what I had learned was like self taught, it was through manufacturer videos, it was through a lot of YouTube videos, and you can learn a lot that way. And there's a lot that you're missing. And I think at some point, it got onto my radar that I could do a more formal training. And that was the beginning of the intuition that there was a lot more to learn. And that so that next stage is conscious incompetence, it's the it is that like that intuition of like, oh, I should probably do, I should seek resources here, you know. And then from that you do the training, or you you pick up new skills, and you move into conscious competence. And I think this is where like impostor syndrome tends to like live is like, I have learned this new skill, I haven't done a lot of practicing of it. I don't know if I'm, you know, if it's right for me to be inhabiting this space and to be helping people because it feels like such a fresh skill that you're thinking really hard about every time that you're doing it. And then I think the more that you do it, it becomes just really intuitive, and you aren't even thinking about it. And that can be dangerous too, because then you sort of, especially in baby land, where things are changing so much we're learning new things every day. And if you aren't keeping up with those skills and staying on track, you can kind of your skill set can kind of like fall fall out of the current information and data that we have. Um, so I don't know, I like to think about that. And I think it's really hard to identify where you are in those stages of competence. And I think for me, I tried to, to refer early and often like we talked about breastfeeding early and often. I have no problem referring people out to other educators when I feel like someone else might be more skilled than me in a given practice, and I think that clients I've observed at the center really feel like when they get a great referral from you. That's an extension of your relationship with them. And that that relationship comes back to you. And so I don't think there's any reason not not to refer and there's so many options for Ferber for referring out. You know, like, why why not. And, like when you were talking with Tierra, if you can find really great community in this space to connect up with and you're able to observe or listen in to those appointments, then those are skills that you get to pass along to your future clients.

  Kaely Harrod 08:59

  Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think I mean, I think it sometimes is a weird space when you are very firmly in that place of imposter syndrome. And feeling like, you have to prove that you know, enough. Right, and, and often in a new space. So for new doulas in this context, that is a space that you live is is this kind of like I need to have an answer to that thing. I actually think in my own life, when I like go to a pediatrician or see a dentist, I like it more when they're like, that's not my thing. Here's the person I trust for that. I want you to go talk to them. Right. I'm like you actually live in your lane. Like this is your actual thing. And you're not an expert in everything because none of us are you know, so I mean, part of my desire in doing this is is to bring some people out of that like you don't know what you don't Oh, space, right, bring some doulas out of that spot. But also to normalize the fact that as a doula supporting families, you're not the only person that they need in their circle, right? They need other professionals. And you have to have some context for when that's helpful, but also even just be open to the fact that you are not the end all be all of the support that they need, you know?

  10:26

  Absolutely. And for your reservation, you you can't be

  Kaely Harrod 10:30

  Yeah, exactly. None of us can be everything that some one one family needs. So, so I want to dive a little bit into what are some reasons that you see that family is kind of sort of scenarios where you're like, Oh, I wish you'd come sooner, right? Because I think in the early days of having a newborn, every single thing is new. Right? And so you're kind of like, I don't know, I'm incompetent. This just like every other thing that I try with this newborn, right? Yeah.

  11:02

  It's like I keep for ticket to that point of feeling like incompetence, like this should be an opportunity for self efficacy. And so a message that I hear a lot in the babywearing space is, you know, don't bother getting a carrier because it's like clothing, you need to fit it with your baby, and your baby's gonna have preferences and just wait because you just want to wait and see. And there is nothing to be gained from that, you know, yes, B is going to be different to yes, you're going to be learning your new baby and your baby will have preferences, but putting in the time to learn what options you have. And to try a few things on in the body that you've lived in for a very long time is going to give you such important feedback and such learning. And if you can pick a couple carriers that you think intuitively are going to work for you. And give yourself that opportunity to have the muscle memory of testing them and using them once a day for even like two weeks of your third trimester. Then you have it's like tying your shoes, it's not a brand new skill that you are learning while you are under slept in those early weeks. And it's also hopefully something that you feel like you have to put off, you know, it's something that you feel more comfortable I hope picking up early on when it it has the most benefit. So I guess that's my first thing that I'm really passionate about and has changed my own practice. As a babywearing educator, I moved from doing primarily just one to one consults, postpartum to doing a lot more prenatal education. And what that has meant for me is that I have clients now who know a lot and are coming to me with questions really informed. And really interesting, as opposed to coming with a problem. That is something we could have easily solved, you know, two or three months ago at the I'm thinking about buying a carrier stage, or I'm trying to sort out what will work best for my my body and my needs and my priorities. So prenatals are like that's, that's kind of the first thing is like, let's let's just get this started. It's, I think a little bit like the value of creating a birth plan is not in the actual decisions. And like, this is the thing that I'm going to do it do. It's the thinking about it, the education, all of the learning, and the research that you're doing is part of the value of a figure. And that's true true of carriers too. It's a really big category. And I think we really like just underestimate exactly how much there is to know and to think about with carrying. And then I mean, I could just like talk forever, so please interrupt me keep going. Right. And then after that I think we miss an opportunity and furtive this is because of the CPSC safety standards around weight. A lot of the benefits around babywearing are, are sort of adjacent to skin to skin right. And you can do skin to skin without a carrier for sure a carrier can be really helpful in that scenario or rap. So you don't have to have a carrier to be able to do skin to skin but I think that a lot of parents miss out on wearing their super tiny babies who maybe just came home from the NICU or wearing their baby while they're in the NICU or just wearing their baby who maybe wasn't in the NICU but is under seven or eight pounds. And so I think anytime you are wanting the value of skin to skin and baby wearing and everything that that can add. But you're having to go off label we want to be really really conscious of best practices with safety and informed choice. So that's I guess a Another really big one if if you have a really a tiny one a baby with any specific medical needs, or who has undergone surgeries, and then if you have twins, that's another really big one I see a lot of twin wearing that is technically kind of off label use of the carrier and it we just want to be really, really aware of, you know, best safety best practices, when when we're doing off label use. And then there's 100 other things. I mean, I could I could keep for like when when to refer. But I think, you know, it makes me sad when I have a client who is coming to me with like an eight week old and they missed, they've missed out on eight weeks of carrying something they were really excited about doing and they just didn't, you know, they picked it up and didn't feel ready. Or it didn't feel it didn't feel good the first time that they used it. And I think that can be kind of a missed opera missed opportunity early on not just for babies. But for caregivers too. It's really, you know, babies grow fast. And as your body is recovering, it's like weightlifting. And if you start with an eight pound baby, that's gonna feel a lot different than when you're dealing with a 15 pounder later on. Jumping into things for shorter periods of time, early on with your your smaller baby, I think is really, really important. So, you know, I think like anytime that you might be tempted to just say, wait, wait on babywearing, because because of the Nikki wires, and cords because your baby is small because you have twins, because it's not feeling easy for you and your frustration tolerance is really low because you're not sleeping and you have this, you know, baby who's crying all the time. Those are all situations where the carrier could add things, but we probably need a little bit of extra help and expertise to make that work. So that it does feel easy for the family. And then like caregiver kind of concerns where I think there's some extra nuance and complexity. And it might be helpful to have an educator help with our like, anytime there's been a C section. So that's what I mean, you know, the rates better than I do, like nationally, talking about like 30 something, right? Yeah, yeah. So that's a lot of families. And then pelvic floor concerns. And then people who just have like chronic pain, like that's a lot of folks. There's a lot we can do with the carrier to make that work. And I think sometimes feel like well carrying isn't an option for me. And my answer or my question about that is, well do you need to carry your baby because babies expect to be carried and if the burden of carrying in arms is greater, which it is that's one of the few studies around babywearing that we have. What I mean, a carrier would add a lot of value here, for somebody having chronic pain or who has disability

  18:06

  or is struggling, you know, their pelvic floor. So I think about all of those things a lot.

  Kaely Harrod 18:12

  Yeah. I think Can I stop you for one second? Because you have loads of amazing information. I think that one of the things you were talking about with the prenatal education ties very much into this that you just said to me, because I think what we sometimes do in life in general, is assume that what we've seen and heard about is the full range of what going back to that, you know, we don't know what we don't know sort of thing. And actually, at the center the other day, a parent said to me, wouldn't it be amazing if there was a baby were aware, like wearing something for swimming? And I said, oh, there are and she was like, What do you know? And she's like, Oh, show me what do you mean, there are baby, you know, and and it was just like a casual conversation. She wasn't like I'm having this crisis, you know, but she was like, I'm gonna go home and buy one on Amazon so we can go to the pool with the toddler you know. I think sometimes what happens in babywearing is we see one person with one type of carrier that we're like, I wouldn't do that or that would hurt my shoulder or that wouldn't work for me because of the size of my belly or something. And then we're just like hmm, I guess I can't do that thing. You know? We just just ality is, I mean, on my third babies when I learned about various types of carriers because the the one carrier worked for the other two kids. And that new third kiddo needed something different. And I was like, Okay, you have to be born. I have to do this. Right. Learn, you know, because we have to. Yeah, yeah. So I think I mean, I think I think part of the value I see when I'm talking to clients about going to like one of your classes or, or you know coming for a console is that you aren't going to necessarily know if you really can or want to do babywearing, unless you actually know your different options. Because if you're just looking at one kind of crappy carrier or one carrier that you don't love how it works, or it's confusing or whatever, then you're making a decision on very little information when it actually could be incredibly beneficial and helpful to you and your baby. You know,

  20:36

  totally, I think also, something you just said reminded me of just the, at the buying stage, having a little bit of input on that, like we think about that a lot. And I feel so bad for the folks who end up using their insurance credit on their breast pump on a pump, that is terrible. Because the DME or whoever, you know, was on the other end of the phone when they were ordering it gave them you know, not ideal advice. There, there was a missed opportunity there for you know, to get a great pump. And the same is true in babywearing, I meet with a lot of folks who spent new fresh money on a carrier that just might not be the best option for them and for their needs and what they're expecting to do with it. And that money could have gone a lot further with a different carrier option, you know?

  Kaely Harrod 21:29

  Yeah, totally. Yeah. So what would you say if you if you're thinking from kind of the perspective of a doula or someone who's working with pregnant families and postpartum families? What would you say? They're, like, layers of referrals could be like, I'm thinking, you know, one is your class. One is maybe if they're online referrals that are just like, more basic, like, there are other kinds of carriers, you know, like, something like that? Or, like, when is a good time to do like a one on one with you like that kind of those layers? Right?

  22:07

  Yeah, um, there's a lot of options out there. So like, I think we start with, you know, in terms of our babywearing learning, a lot of people start with their manufacturer videos, and I think that that's, for some people a fine place to start, they can get pretty far with that that's an okay place for them to learn, and they get a pretty optimal fit. And that might be the realm where, you know, a doula can inhabit really easily to help with that. And if things are getting derailed at any point at the manufacturer or video stage, which they often are, then I think we want to look at other options, I would say like always, always, always look for those prenatal classes and resources about what your carrying options are just so that we get carrier options that that are going to be optimal for the Ages and Stages and expectations you have around wearing. And then beyond that there are babywearing groups in every area in every city, a lot of them shut down under COVID. And that's really sad. We are working on building up community here at the Center for DC in suburban Maryland, there is Patuxent babywearing, and there used to be a group and Fairfax I don't know if they are currently meeting. And I think that that can be so valuable to just meet with other parents who are wearing because like you were saying, just seeing someone else do it is, is so informative, and it makes it feel like this is an option that I have. And so seeing a variety of wearing options in your community and seeing people actually execute that I think is is really an important context that missing in a post COVID world you know, like we just have lost a lot of like our, our various like meetup communities where you might encounter that. And then yet, like YouTube and Tiktok and iG our resources and they're not your babywearing educator. So like you get I think really can get really great advice. I think it's useful to get a list of trustworthy sources before you go down those rabbit holes, because there's also a lot of not optimal videos that I've seen in those spaces. And so like I could give you a list of like, I don't know, 10 or 20 educators who are really, really wonderful, who have great tutorials in each of those spaces. And so those are really great referrals. And then beyond that we're looking at like a one to one with an educator and the Center for babywearing studies. We'll have a really great list of educators in your area a lot a lot of folks do online or video call education so you could meet with some In that way, certainly you can do that with me. But you can find other resources out there too. And I think that that's really important in a variety of scenarios like for anyone who just wants to cut down on the amount of research time that they have to do, there's so many things you have to research is apparent, you know, like I did this around car seats, I just did not want to spend, I didn't want to sink a whole day into learning about car seats, just totally to tell someone like, here's what I'm looking for, can you spit me out like a few answers of like, what would fit this bill, and that the best money that I spent, I don't even think it was like more than $50. And it was like a 20 minute conversation and was amazing. And so like, I think that a one to one can kind of inhabit that space too. And I am happy if your client is okay with you joining to have you observe in our one to one meetings, either virtually or in person here at the center. And I know a lot of babywearing educators who would feel the exact same way. And then I think the areas in which it gets, it becomes really important to seek one to one help or when you have a medical concern, or your baby has a medical concern. So like we were talking about for preemies for babies who have reflux or heart conditions, or who are really small. And then for parents who have P Mads, I think that's another area where there's like a little bit of a missed opportunity where they would benefit so much from having a carrier. And those are also the folks that are going to have a really low frustration tolerance for learning a new skill. But would benefit so much from being able to get out of the house with a carrier from being able to take care of their bodies and feed themselves because they have a carrier. And might benefit from being able to monitor their baby and feel their you know, their baby's breath on their chest and feel that warmth and get that positive hormonal feedback and the oxytocin and the downregulation of the stress response. I think is all all really important. And then I hear a lot of my baby hates the carrier. And I'd say all of the time, that's not the case. And there's something about this process that we can change that will will transform that so if that's a phrase that you have uttered, I would say that I'm to to touch base with an educator. And then the last one is I think, you know, so closed ancestral or cultural practices. So like, I do not come from a culture that I come from a I have broken babywearing traditions. And so they're all things that I've learned a new, but for folks who are wanting to connect with an ancestral practice, within their culture, I would always always, always refer them to someone within their culture who and there's lots of folks out there who can skill so like Mexican Revo. So, yeah, a lot of the other ones I,

  Kaely Harrod 28:11

  I would refer out for that. Yeah, yeah. I, I'm laughing when you say, you know, my baby hates the carrier, because I feel like every single client I've ever had, who did babywearing said that at some point. I was like, Well, I mean, they're just like, in the moment, when you put them in either You really suck at putting them into what they hate is that like process of getting them in, or they're like, already kind of pissed at life in that moment, and they just are mad, you know, like, so they need some soothing and the carrier is not making it worse. But it's meant to make it better, at least for you, because it relieves some of the pressure on your arms and your upper back, you know. But yeah, it's very, very common phrase. So totally. Yeah, I do think one other thing that I think is just helpful to emphasize is you brought up you know, folks dealing with any kind of mental health stuff. I think when I'm dealing with an over with like a, someone who's dealing with a significant amount of anxiety, especially in the postpartum time, having an expert reassure them that what they're doing is safe is huge. And so I would often refer someone like that because of the reassurance of you double checking what they're doing, even if what they're doing looks correct, you know, because I think that gives a freedom to continue doing it and using it freely as a tool. When you've had some reassurance someone's eyes have been on you and your baby in this carrier. And you're not just like assuming that you're doing it right, you know,

  29:57

  and using really specific words to list off We're seeing that looks opt safe. If you don't feel confident in as a doula and being able to describe safety, and what that looks like, that would be a really great opportunity to refer out. And I see a lot of folks who want that positive feedback than what that looks really safe. And I have clients follow up with me and send me photos, you know, like weeks later. That's another category too, that I think is like important to talk about if you don't feel because doulas I think are operating in the very early postpartum space often and not, you know, I'm sure this is different for some postpartum doulas who may be working with older babies. But a lot of a lot of doulas are working with really, really fresh newborns, right. And I think there's some anticipatory guidance around baby wearing that can be really beneficial to, to talk about what it looks like over the scope of development, and to normalize that. So I tried to just drop little mentions of how this can change what it will might look like a month from now, two months from now how we can tweak this carry when you start to see these developmental changes, because otherwise I have folks come back and say, my carrier stopped working for me, it got uncomfortable. My baby didn't like it at this age. Really, what we needed was just a different carry, or a different way of thinking about wearing I think, important thing to normalize. And so I think if you don't feel comfortable talking about baby wearing within the scope of development, that can be a really great opportunity to to refer out. Yeah, yeah.

  Kaely Harrod 31:46

  I love that. You mentioned that because I do. I feel like as I'm as I'm coaching, right as I'm as I'm like, in this space of teaching other doulas I find there's so much in my head that I don't realize is there that I need to try to get out. But one of the things I do is I love slings. And so if I have a brand new baby in a sling, oftentimes I just kind of toss them in there, right? Like, not literally, but I'm very comfortable with it. And I'm very comfortable putting them in a, in a safe position, comfortable with how it should feel on my body. So I do it really quick and easy. And oftentimes parents are just like, wow. But they're also saying to me, okay, so how she is in there is safe, right? And what is that? Like? How do I know and I'm like, Look, you see how my my I can like reach down and my chin right away hits her head, you know, like, I if I'm looking at her, I can see that her chin is up and not down and her you know, she's breathing in this way. And her head is facing like this. And so I can give them actual like, this is why I know that this is the right fit on my body. Aside from the fact that I do it once a week, at least for babies, usually, you know, but I think that also grows people's confidence in their own understanding of how their baby and their body work with their carrier because that's ultimately what's gonna give them good information about whether or not this current carry is accurate and, and safe. You know,

  33:15

  I think that that made me think of another thing. That's another thing that I feel passionate about, which is empowering people to feel that level of confidence doing the carry completely on their own. So if you don't feel comfortable teaching someone through mirroring and without any hands on touch, being able to describe it in detail, being able to mirror what, what they need to be doing with the carry. There's nothing that me using my hands to do it for a client will help with. And so I feel really, really strongly that demonstrating and having them demonstrate it back to me several times so that they feel really confident in their ability to do this solo is so so vital. And so if you're finding that I guess as you're teaching folks like you have to use your hands a lot that might be a cue to to just listen to the way that that someone else teaches and I love listening to the way other educators describe and in any field, how they describe their work and what their short cuts are and the language and cues that they use to describe you know, what's important. is really, really cool to hear.

  Kaely Harrod 34:38

  Yeah, I love that. And I think that's a an also like a great reminder of how in this work, all of us are sort of, well most of us are aiming towards graduating our clients from needing us you know, like that's part of your hope is helping people get competent in their baby wearing and then like go off into the wild and what Are there babies? You know? And that's I mean doulas, that's our job I always tell people postpartum doula should be like working themselves out of a job. That's what they that's what our hope is, is that you don't need a doula for the rest of your life, although that would be lovely, that you feel competent. And and we asked being there becomes just like a bonus thing rather than like a dire need, you know? So yeah, wonderful. Well, I have, I think said this every single episode so far in this series that we need to have another episode, because we have loads more that we could discuss. And I wish I could just go into all the amazingness that is the breastfeeding center event. So maybe that's what our next episode will be on. But I really, really, really appreciate you taking some time to share your knowledge and expertise with my listeners. Is there any last thing that you want people to know, before we kind of wrap up this episode? No, I mean, I think the you know, so definitely feel free to email me. Yeah.

  36:20

  Yeah, I guess the last thing I would say is just I'm really available and I know a lot of other veggie babywearing educators who would love to be available to you too. So I will give my contact or Kaely you have my contact information. I will put your info feel free to email me feel free to you know, touch base with your clients and ask if they're comfortable with you joining for appointments. And yeah, I would love to be a resource.

  Kaely Harrod 36:48

  Yeah, that's amazing. I'll make sure that the breastfeeding center babywearing classes and groups are in the show notes as as long as well as Katie's information so that you can connect with them. And if you're looking in your area, you're not here local to DC also put the babywearing educator kind of database that you can search who's who's near you. But Katie does offer virtual stuff and honestly is amazing. So Katie would be a great resource for you too, even if you don't live here. Katie, thank you again. I so appreciate you being on and to all the listeners. We will see you in the next episode. Thanks for joining us for this episode of the doula Tips and Tips podcast. If you learned something today or had an aha moment, we'd love for you to share that on Instagram and tag us at Herat doula, so we can celebrate alongside you. If you found this podcast helpful. We would so appreciate you taking a second to leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast app that helps other doulas find us as we do this work together. This podcast is intended as educational and entertainment it is not medical advice or business advice. Please consult your own medical or legal team for your own needs around

Are you loving Doula Tips and Tits Podcast? If so we’d be so appreciative of your support! You have the option to choose monthly support starting at just $3 a month. 

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1916032/supporters/new

Because doulas are usually in a position of teaching new skills, babywearing is so frequently part of that!  Babywearing educators can be valuable partners for doulas, as they can provide in-depth knowledge on the practice of babywearing and its many benefits and safety factors. In this podcast episode, we will explore what doulas should know about the benefits of babywearing educators and how they can work together to support families.

Today’s episode is with Katie Shamp. Katie is an all-around awesome human and an absolute wealth of knowledge around babywearing and lactation among other things. Babywearing educators are under-utilized by doulas so this is an important episode to see the benefit and need to know and refer to babywearing experts. 

Quote from Katie:

“A lot of the benefits around babywearing are, are sort of adjacent to skin to skin right. And you can do skin to skin without a carrier for sure a carrier can be really helpful in that scenario or rap. So you don't have to have a carrier to be able to do skin to skin but I think that a lot of parents miss out on wearing their super tiny babies who maybe just came home from the NICU or wearing their baby while they're in the NICU or just wearing their baby who maybe wasn't in the NICU but is under seven or eight pounds. And so I think anytime you are wanting the value of skin to skin and baby wearing and everything that that can add. But you're having to go off label. We want to be really, really conscious of best practices with safety and informed choice. So that's I guess another really big one if you have a really tiny one, a baby with any specific medical needs, or who has undergone surgeries, and then if you have twins, that's another really big one I see a lot of twin wearing that is technically kind of off label use of the carrier and it we just want to be really, really aware of, you know, best safety best practices, when we're doing off label use.”

OUR GUEST Katie Shamp:

I’ve been working in baby- and lactation-land since 2012 at The Breastfeeding Center. A lot of my work supporting our community is behind the scenes, sourcing and vetting our product selection, honing our systems, and supporting our staff with technology—though my favorite excuse to close my computer is working with families on babywearing! I trained with the Center for Babywearing Studies in 2019, and became a Certified Breastfeeding Specialist in 2021. My passion for this work is centered in reproductive justice: I believe all people deserve access-to, and autonomy-in their choices about whether and how to grow their families, followed by respect, and support in realizing their goals. At home I love to splash in any body of water I can find, go on crisp early morning bike rides, and enjoy backpacking with my family and doggo.

CONNECT with Katie:

Website:https://www.breastfeedingcenter.org/

Babywearing Appointments: https://www.breastfeedingcenter.org/babywearing

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/breastfeeding_center/

CONNECT with Kaely on TikTok or  Instagram

https://www.tiktok.com/@doulacoach

https://www.instagram.com/Harroddoula/

If you like this episode, don't forget to share it to your Instagram stories and tag me @harroddoula

Kaely Daily is produced by Kaely Harrod of Harrod Doula Services

It is sponsored by The Birth Prep Blueprint Childbirth Class

Music by Madirfan: Hidden Place on Pixabay