Changing Birth in the Indigenous Community with Marvene Young
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Transcript
Welcome to Dula Tips and Tits, the podcast where we cut through the noise and get real about what it takes to build a sustainable doula business. I'm Kaylee Harrod. I've been a doula informally for 14 years and full time for seven.
Around here, we don't sugarcoat stuff. We talk autonomy, owning your worth, creating a business that works for you. No fluff, no burnout, just the honest truth on how to be your own best boss. Let's get into today's episode.
Hello and welcome back to Dula Tips and Tits. I am here today with another doula. Marveen is joining us from Michigan, which is exciting. She is the owner of Nish doula services. Marveen, welcome. Thank you for being with us, taking the time to hang out.
I would love for you to share with the listeners a bit about how you became a doula and kind of got to this place. Yes, thank you. I became a doula because with my second born, I wanted the pregnancy, but nobody supported me throughout it, except for my lactation consultant.
That was a really lonely time in my life. I've come to realize how many women there are in that predicament, when really all they need is somebody to be there by their side, just to be a friend. When did you become a doula?
I have just started a couple months ago. I have got my first couple cases, so I'm excited to experience my first birth. I was a nurse prior, so I have attended a C-section birth before, and I have three children of my own.
Yeah, I love that. How old are your kids? I have a 10-year-old, a 2-year-old, and a 1-year-old. Okay, I was going to say, if you just started and the second birth is what hit it off, those kids must be pretty little.
Yeah, that's exciting. So part of your part of why I wanted to chat with you is your cultural background as well. Do you mind sharing a bit about that and how that influences your work? Yeah, so I am a Native American Anishinaabe means original people.
I was born on the reservation, born and raised. What else? How is your culture impacting your work? How does it motivate you? Okay, so there's a lot of historical trauma that has been passed down through generations, like my grandparents, every single one of them were in a boarding school.
In boarding schools, they would criticize, belittle, abuse, and neglect all of the children. They were not raised on love. They did not have any support. they went in from when they were infants until they were adults so they never got like that parental guidance that parental love they never learned trust because all their adults in their lives were not trustworthy many of them didn't even make it home so we're still missing out on children's bodies that we would like to get back to our hometown but this has impacted my parents because my parents were also raised in trauma because their parents didn't know how to parent and that's the struggle going on through many families that I see and so like my generation we're not directly affected by the boarding schools but we've lost our culture we've lost our language we didn't grow up with unconditional love because conditional love is very prominent among native families like it's very easy to be disowned from your family like I smoked weed when I was young and I got disowned and pregnancies are not celebrated especially young pregnancies I had my first one when I was 17 and that was extremely frowned upon and then I was a single mom and I have my second pregnancy completely frowned upon and then I had my third my after I met this guy for three months and nobody ever like celebrated my pregnancies I was like shamed for being pregnant and that's what a lot of young moms face around here so that's what I want to change is teach them boundaries teach them like to stand up for themselves like they're allowed to be happy they're allowed to celebrate this baby they just need somebody in their corner to help support them that way yeah one I mean I think the I mean there's so much research at this point about generational trauma right and and that's like parking on a genetic level you know in terms of DNA and whatnot but I think also what you're seeing and what you're talking about is the like impact of the culture being stripped in like very methodically,
very like traumatically and abusively stripped by white people, you know, away from indigenous families. And then that the impact of that rolls down into everything, of course, you know. And I know, one of the things that I know that a friend of mine has been dealing with a lot is trying to reclaim some of the postpartum practices that are native and kind of like, natural to the culture.
And, and also like even finding out what those are. Because like you said, there's so much tradition that's lost in the process. But like even breastfeeding was lost too, because that was when like battles and stuff came out.
And so that's something that we're trying to like, get back. Yeah, and there's a lot of support in my community. Like we have like parenting coaches, we have Oh, I love that. home visiting programs that give out cradle boards and now like I've seen them at so many breastfeeding trainings so I'm thrilled that they're starting to get around our area.
Yeah what would you say the like birth norms are at this point that you would love to see shifted right like I know some cultures there's a lot of like cesarean birth or medicalized birth some folks there's a lot of like out of hospital birth because there's not trust in doctors what are you seeing at the moment in your community?
Ours are c-sections our c-section rate is about 70 percent. Oh my god. Breastfeeding mothers often don't even make it to six months. Yeah but a lot of it I feel like would be the hormones linked to the trauma for the c-sections and for um they're like for me personally like I've always lived in fight or flight survival mode and to do that you don't release like the oxytocin all the love hormones that you need to get the baby out of there and so I've needed pitocin for every single one of my babies but a lot of moms need c-sections to get their babies out because they're stressed they're scared like they don't know what's going on they don't have the support I was there like I struggled through that and so I just want to be there for somebody so they can know like it's okay to relax it's okay like you just need to let the process happen they just need somebody there to post them.
Yeah that um that I think is spot on in part I um I teach oxytocin stuff a lot right that's a big part of my practice and one of the things I saw in the pandemic is that response right that stress response where nobody would go into labor because nobody's body felt safe to do it you know and it wasn't there wasn't that release of hormones there wasn't that even just physical muscle release and even inductions like you're saying with Pitocin,
right? Like even those would sometimes not succeed because the body was like, absolutely not. We're not giving birth to this child right now. You know, which is I mean, I think that link to trauma is huge.
And we often aren't making that connection. You know, in terms of c-section rates, 70% is so high. What would you like do less to know about boarding schools and the like subsequent trauma from them?
So like, try to think about what they don't know, like what was missed, what was not passed down, like things such as like empathy, trust, self love, compassion, like their grandparents were never shown these things, their parents were never shown these things because nobody knew anymore that that's normal to be in an unconditional love household.
Like that just wasn't a thing around here. And so you have a lot of like non-supportive families, you have a lot of trauma, you got a lot of abuse, like even like today, like a lot of domestic violence.
Just be aware of that and try to understand from their point of view, like this is like what's normal, but it's not really our job to fix everybody, it's our job to be there to support them during the most sacred time of their life, but it's welcome to child.
Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think the layers are getting peeled back, like you're saying, right? Like your parents weren't importing schools, but their parents were. So the emotional trauma there is absolutely there.
And you're slowly peeling that back with your own kiddos, you know what I mean? Like undoing those layers of trauma, but that is a ton of freaking work. Like that's working through trauma as you're pregnant and giving birth and raising kids is not ideal, you know?
Like that's a ton of work on the parents as well, which absolutely highlights their need for support, you know? Yeah. So what are some of the cultural practices around birth and postpartum that you would love to see kind of restored in your community and for your peers?
Some of the things that we do is like smudging before the birth, just to like clear the energies, just like get good energies flowing. And then we do a lot of like music, like hand drums, rattles, singing, it's just like celebrating, welcoming this life in.
Native families are known for having a ton of family members there for like the birth and like in and out, which can also be like stressful on the mother. You gotta be mindful of that, keep the visitors at bay.
And then we take the placenta and then we bury it, depending on the gender is like where you would bury it, but that's just to like help guide them along. in life and if you don't like that's okay too because there's other ceremonies that we can do to help honor your child that way and help keep them on the path of life.
Yeah I love that. Yeah I also love that all of that to me sounds like such a loving supportive way for a baby to enter the world right like this celebration of them being a new part of the world rather than what you described previously of like pregnancy being frowned upon and like people not being supported and not being celebrated you know and it I mean it makes me both like sad for the fact that all of that was stripped away and also I mean angry more than like sad and pissed right but also like hopeful for the fact that you and others are doing this hard work of bringing it because that like the culture around that is starting out their life.
with such a love, like just surrounded in love, right? Like this absolute opposite of what we're talking about in terms of trauma, you know? Yeah, I love that. So as a parent, how do you balance being a parent of little kiddos and being a doula?
What does that look like for you? I have so much support. Like I can usually just like, call up somebody like I have two older sisters who live in the area and my mom's involved and I have at least three aunts that I would refer to as a mom who would take my kids every time and my husband's really flexible with his work hours so I could just be like, hey, I gotta go and then I'll have somebody here.
I love that. I mean, that is also like sounds healing in terms of having people in support, you know? Like it's one more kind of level of healing in that sense. I love that. So you are new to being a doula.
What kind of services are you hoping to offer or do you already offer? I already offer. I offer all services. I've been attending many trainings. Like I went to some traditional trainings on like postpartum care and that was super cool and also experiencing that myself because I had a postpartum doula who was native and who did my kids for free.
Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. With just your last one or with your last two? Just my last one. Well, like the last two, but with the last, my middle child, it was COVID time and so like she was in the house like she was with my last one, but she dropped off food and supplies and like some of like the teas and herbs that they use.
There's this perinatal spray that feels so good. It worked better than the numbing spray and it was just a bunch of tea. That's amazing. Yeah. And so I got the recipe for that. So I'm excited to share that with other moms.
That's awesome. And are you doing both postpartum and birth along with teaching other classes or just birth and postpartum at the moment? Just birth and postpartum. Yeah but I do want to get into like teaching for like traditional stuff and like what I incorporated into it.
Yeah I mean that's such a natural addition to Dula work in many ways you know because the educational piece is a big piece of it and I think lots of people then add on like whether it's childbirth class or you know traditional like herbals and things like that that you mentioned but also ways that even just the family can be involved you know like that like grandparent classes and things like that are also a really awesome addition that's cool.
Okay so I would love to hear what is like now that you are Dula and having gone through three births. What's something that you wish you knew? with your first birth that you know now as a doula? I wish I knew, like, for my first one, she was doing the 22nd and she came on the 28th.
And I tried scaring her out. Like I was watching scary movies. I'm like, I'm going to get this baby out of here one way or another. And I like so much pineapple. I just did the most ridiculous shit ever.
No, you're allowed to curse on here. The opposite of what you're supposed to be trying to achieve. Yeah, you're scaring yourself. My last one, because I did that with my second child too. And so with my doctor was like, no, she said that it might have worked.
But that's not what you want to do. She was like, you want to watch romantic comedies? You want to laugh? You want to have a good time? And I'm like, what? Like birth is supposed to be scary. Yeah, it's actually not supposed to be scary.
You're supposed to just your body and like find your own room and just embrace it. And another problem I didn't know about was like the relaxing part. Because like I was totally dilated and like, I just wasn't able to push because I was tightening up that muscle that I didn't know.
And then it wasn't until they gave me like an epidural that I was able to actually relax because I almost had to get a c-section because maybe wasn't coming. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we underscore that pelvic floor need to relax, you know.
And when there's trauma, when there's fear, like any of that, our butts just sync up. Like absolutely not. It's not safe. Right. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. It's all about feeling safe and comfortable, which is really hard to do in like a hospital setting.
Yeah. Yeah, totally. Especially in a scenario of significant trauma, right? Like there's because you're also dealing, you're surrounded by it, right? With providers potentially dealing with trauma and your family dealing with trauma.
know, there's so many layers there, and how it impacts people as well. So, so I want us to wrap up for today. But I would love for you to share what is something that other doulas could benefit from when, like, what is something that you want listeners to hear from you that you think would benefit them.
I'd love for them to be able to help teach people boundaries and how to advocate for themselves. Because those are the huge things that have been lost. And that just completely changed lives, like being able to put on those boundaries, like telling somebody, like, I don't want your unsolicited advice.
Like, that's a good boundary that many people should have, especially with having so much trauma involved in their families, laying down those boundaries to prevent further traumas to like you and your children.
Like, a lot of people don't know that. And so like they just take all the abuse, all the criticism, all of the belittling from their family, because that's what they grew up as normal. So to teach them that it's not normal would change their lives.
Also being able to stand up for yourself and like advocate. Like that's the huge part of like my services is that like people want me to advocate for them. It's like, no, let me teach you how to advocate for yourself.
Yeah, yeah. And it's a life skill forever. You know, I mean, there's so many scenarios in which we need that and also how we're teaching our kiddos to do that in the future, you know? Yeah, I love that.
Well, thank you so much for taking time to hang out with me today and to share with the listeners. I know that they will be greatly blessed by hearing everything that you have shared. I am excited to see your work blossom and grow.
And I will let you know, I'll put everything in the show notes for people to be able to connect with you and see your work and how, what kind of awesome stuff you're doing. So. Well, thank you. I appreciate it.
All right. We will see everyone in the next episode. Thanks for joining us for this episode of the Dula Tips and Tits podcast. If you learned something today or had an aha moment, we'd love for you to share that on Instagram and tag us at hiradula so we can celebrate alongside you.
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We'll see you again soon.
Marvene Young is our guest today on the podcast. She is a Doula who serves the families of Chippewa County. Her own birth and postpartum experiences drove her to this work along with her background in nursing and a desire to heal generational trauma wounds in her community.
Quote from Marvene
“I became a doula because with my second born, I wanted the pregnancy, but nobody supported me throughout it, except for my lactation consultant. That was a really lonely time in my life. I've come to realize how many women there are in that predicament, when really all they need is somebody to be there by their side, just to be a friend. I am a Native American. Anishinaabe, means original people. There's a lot of historical trauma that has been passed down through generations, like my grandparents, every single one of them were in a boarding school. In boarding schools, they would criticize, belittle, abuse, and neglect all of the children. They were not raised on love. They did not have any support. they went in from when they were infants until they were adults so they never got like that parental guidance that parental love they never learned trust because all their adults in their lives were not trustworthy. Many of them didn't even make it home. We're still missing out on children's bodies that we would like to get back to our hometown. This has impacted my parents because my parents were also raised in trauma because their parents didn't know how to parent and that's the struggle going on through many families that I see. My generation we're not directly affected by the boarding schools but we've lost our culture, we've lost our language, we didn't grow up with unconditional love because conditional love is very prominent among native families. It's very easy to be disowned from your family like I smoked weed when I was young and I got disowned. Pregnancies are not celebrated, especially young pregnancies, I had my first one when I was 17 and that was extremely frowned upon. I was a single mom and I have my second pregnancy completely frowned upon, and then I had my third my after I met this guy for three months and nobody ever like celebrated my pregnancies I was shamed for being pregnant and that's what a lot of young moms face around here so that's what I want to change.”
Meet Marvene Young:
I am a wife, mom of 3, home healthcare nurse, EMT and a full time doula. I was raised on an Indian reservation and had a sacred childhood filled with ceremonies and community. Not everyone had that experience due to boarding schools. Later on in my life I found out why my family is the way it is, laced with traumas, addictions and negative self talk because that’s how boarding schools taught them to be. Find out how we are the generation that heals from historical trauma, it starts with our future- our children.
Connect with Marvene:
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61561152279621
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Doula Tips and Tits is produced by Kaely Harrod of Harrod Doula Services
It is sponsored by The Doula Biz Blueprint Self-Paced Class for Doulas Launching Successful and Sustainable Businesses!
Music by Madirfan: Hidden Place on Pixabay
